it still never stops amazing me how no one wants to tell the truth, they have to obscure it all in rhetoric and political messes.
look, abortion comes down to this, no matter what.
do you believe that a fetus is so obviously a baby that you are willing to outlaw killing it?
or do you believe that it is unclear enough to where you shouldn't make the decision for someone else, that it's a grey area.
i've switched back and forth, in the last six months i've believed abortion is wrong and should be outlawed, though this can not (and will not) be accomplished through christians grabbing control and forcing it.
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This isn't an issue of Christians and liberalists, or even conservatives and liberalists. This isn't even a political issue at heart, because it's something that those who stay out of politics still have some sort of opinion on. It's an issue of just what you said - what do you believe? Is it right or wrong or is it gray?
Personally, I believe the that this is a right/wrong issue and I know what I believe to be right. To be so selfish that you would take another's life (because yes, I believe it to be a life God has knit together, knows and loves) is despicable, it's murder. Politics has come up with this fancy word for it and assumes that 'abortion' will justify or cover over the fact that it's murder.
I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but you wanted opinions and this is mine. and Christianity isn't a religion for those afraid of offending or being offended, ha-ha.
;)
i don't think the question is weather or not it's right or wrong to kill unborn babies, the question is weather or not it's right to outlaw it.
we can't ban all sinful practices. the government isn't put there to be our concience.
at the same time this is different, because there are lives at stake and the government DOES have a responsibility to protect human life. i think. so it's easy to see how it goes in circles.
well...some people still question the right or wrong aspect. they think it's ok to murder as long as it's called abortion, which is why it's such a big issue in politics. after all, outlawing it can be done only after it's been decided that it is in fact murder, that it is wrong. then yes, the government does have the right, the responsibility, to protect human life just like any other murders.
You're right, we can't outlaw all sin, but that doesn't mean we can sit back and just ignore it because there are already enough laws and we don't want to start becoming peoples' conscience.
Sam I think you have a good point about it not being accomplished by Christians grabbing control. Even if it is illegal that's not going to stop girls who are desperate. So people argue that we should make a "safe" way so that girls who are that desperate don't end up killing themselves too. But you'd think it would cut down at least a little bit on abortions if it was illegal. Let's not make it easy to commit murder! But that's what liberals are pushing for. Did you know that it's illegal for an underage girl to get her ears pierced without her parents' consent, but it is legal for her to kill the unborn baby inside her without her parents' consent?
Anyway I think it's a long battle. I believe that abortion should be illegal but that Christians shouldn't stop at that. We have to provide alternatives through things like adoption so that those girls really will obey the law. That way we wouldn't be just "grabbing control." We wouldn't be cutting down on their freedom but giving them more freedom to do the right thing.
i disagree.
it is a political issue that republicans have seized upon to catapult themselves into office. they've made it a big deal so you'll care about politics and get outraged. is that wrong to do?
yes-the government's job is to protect human life. what's human life? who gets to decide?
the answer is the constitution, that has our rights.
if we want to change abortion in this country, it is not going to be by voting our "christian homies" into office. repeatedly, we have seen these men and women use and abuse the christians who were tricked into voting for them.
it is all at a relationship level.
the government is only a product of what the people believe.
the majority of the people around us believe abortion should be legal.
that means, if the evidence is on our side, WE need to get the evidence out there and CHANGE what we can--not by forcing people through laws.
if the evidence isn't on our side, then maybe we shouldn't be confusing everyone by running around with our face in our palms so outraged about how anyone could EVER think such an OUTRAGEOUS thing as that fetuses are not human.
Sam, can you give me some examples of people who exploited their pro-life stance and then disappointed their constituents? I'd really be interested to find out because I never realized that could happen but it's easy to see how it could.
So I think what you're saying is that we need to spend our time talking to people and persuading them that abortion is wrong, not making laws that we know they won't follow. I agree. I think the only thing that will really stop abortion is if people actually believe it is wrong. But I also think it's worth it to try to pass laws against it, because while laws are still in place to aid abortion, it just makes it that much easier to commit murder. Right?
Just remembered an article I read: http://www.worldmag.com/articles/12749
Unfortunately you can't read the whole thing unless you're a World subscriber!! Urgh.
let's start with tom delay, for instance, lol.
speaker for the republican party.
self-avowed christian who ran on his abortion stance and his christianity.
turns out he was a sleaze bag in bed with all kinds of corporate messes.
turns out he lied to everyone about his campaign financing.
okay, that is really really weird.
i remember reading that article.
that could possibly be, and i don't exaggerate, the singular worst article i have ever read in my entire life. what a sorry excuse for journalism, i'm sorry.
it's SO illogical.
look at Romney. now that he is running in a major republican race, he knows, that unless he takes a hard stance against abortion, he is not going to get voted in, so he changes his mind on abortion suddenly to give himself a chance. is this a good indicator of a good man we need in office?
is it the only thing that matters?
what if the office someone is looking to run for has nothing to do with abortion?
never votes on abortion?
do we still need to put everything into that one issue?
shouldn't we be looking at how they spend once in office?
how they follow up on their promises?
christians everywhere have been mobilized into politics on hot-button single issues.
with their help, we end up with "christians" like president bush, who pray on certain days and have their pictures taken in church.
we need to look at how they're breaking their promises, we need to see past their fake facade of christianity and pro-life stances and see the real men that they are and vote for that.
ergh.
sorry.
that article is my least favorite article ever, i can't even believe world would publish it.
and, yes, i see your point, about abortion, it would make it harder.
OH! Maybe that's why you don't like World! It's not supposed to be journalism--they're not reporting the news and they don't claim that they are. They're stating their completely biased opinions.
Thanks for the examples. I must confess that I am not up on the news enough to even know who you are talking about (sorry! sorry!) but I'll go look those people up to see who they are and what they did. It sounds like you have a really good point. Though I've always believed President Bush is a true Christian.
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