Hi everyone. I haven't posted yet, so I am now.
I thought something worth talking about is books. Me and Michaela were actually talking about it the other day, and I know that we have talked about it to some extent before, here on blogger.
I'm pretty certian that everyone of us blogging people read quite a bit of Fantasy. I know I do. I really enjoy it. Especially if it is well written. Eragon, Eldest, Narnia, LOTR, we all really like these books. However what I really wanted to get too is magic in books. Is it wrong to have magic in books? Or, to read books with magic? Magic certianly doesn't exist, that is, normally in the way we read it. Eragon and Eldest are really good, well written books. They have a large amount of magic. Is reading books like that giving us a false idea on things?
Or another problem is religion. If their is magic and religion, like false gods, is that wrong? Tamora Peirce writes alot of really good, well written books. However, aside from there large amount of magic, they do have a complex system of gods. Is reading about a world with other gods, that doesn't exist, and the gods certianly don't exist, wrong? ( I really couldn't recomend most of her books, they have some slightly objectionable material.)
One thing me and Michaela were talking about was Harry Potter. I know that most Christian families don't read them, and they don't allow their kids to read them. I have read them. Me, Michaela, Katie, and Dad have all read them. Oh . . they are really good. The writing is great. I really enjoy them. But I don't see what everyone else see wrong about them. Is it because they are "Witches" and "Wizards" or because the people are in the real world? I would point out this is no different than Narnia. And although the children in the book are studying to become Witches and Wizards, it is not in an evil way, but no more different than to become a . . . magician. Witch and Wizard is a title. I also think that most people are Prejudiced against them. I know I was. I was Prejudiced against LOTR. The only reason was, I didn't know a thing about it. So I assumed it was like some weird sci-fic that dad would like. I was probably Prejudiced against Harry Potter. I think that the general oppinion of Harry Potter in Christian homes is made by people who haven't read the books, so they don't really know, and the people who said they were bad in the first place probably really did thing they were evil. And then from word of mouth, it got all exaturated and mixed up. I think people just need to be a little more open minded.
Just a few thoughts there!
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13 comments:
agree 1000% about harry potter. people say so many things about it that aren't true. a lot of times, we can't trust people's opinions on things until we see them ourselves.
i wouldn't have a problem reading a story with a bunch of gods. do you think they're real? no. are they changing your image of the real god? i hope not! they're so ridiculously different from the real god. cs lewis wrote a book with a bunch of gods! (till we have faces, great book)
i refuse to believe there is magic going on anywhere in the world. as in communicating with satan, or sacrificing animals. it's paranoia. and even theoretically let's throw in that there could be magic. it is not going to be pointing wands and saying latin words or saying spells with the right feeling inside.
I definitly agree. And in the case of Till We Have Faces, it all represents a phiosophy that we can learn from. A lot of books are like that- like LOTR and Narnia. Eragon (Eldest, especialy) is most certainly NOT... and I wouldn't condone it or write like that myself, but I don't think there's real harm in reading it.
It's not like language or guy-girl stuff or violence that gets into your head and starts to effect the way you think. Hopefully.
1000%?
Ok. deep breath. this shouldn't take too long. (*coughs*...well...)
I agree w/ sam about reading books with gods. people set up stories about different worlds with different cultures, some of which have multiple/false gods...which is really no different than other cultures in our world, and reading them opens our mind up more to the cultures in our own world that are based on polytheism.
I completely disagree with what you said about magic sam. It is extremely real and extremely dangerous to God-fearing Christians, and it comes in all forms, where Satan give it power. Just as Christians can talk with God and communicate with Him - because He is real - there are people in the world who worship Satan, who is just as real and almost just as powerful as God, and I believe that those who worship him have the ability to communicate with him, and do things in his name. This is completely biblical, examples being any references to demon-possesed people (esp. Judas in John 13:27), where Satan or his allies are physically in a person. There is a spiritual world all around us that we can't see, but it exists, and Satan wages his war in it around us. I firmly believe that people do communicate with Satan and demons through their worship of him. In Leviticus 19:26 God specifically says "Do not practice divination or sorcery," which I think shows pretty clearly that it happens all the time, and that God wants His children to have nothing to do with it. A few verses:
Numbers 24:1
Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (really good)
2 Kings 21:5-6
Acts 19:19
Acts 13:6-12
Exodus 7:11-12
I looked up the word "magic" in my Bible, and a few good verses showing God's opinion of it are:
Isaiah 47:12
Ezekiel 13:18
Ezekiel 13:20
Acts 8:10ish - the part about Simon the Sorcerer
Personally (and I really don't want to give offence to anyone here) I read most of the first book of Harry Potter several years ago, but never finished it. When all the stuff happened about it when they made the movies my parents asked me (and I agreed) not to read them or see the movies. One of the biggest differences between LotR and Harry Potter (trying really hard not to be biased, but I'm a fanatic for one and against the other...) is the entire mindset behind it, and the worldview of the authors. In any book, the author's worldview comes accross through the whole thing. And while LotR wasn't written as an allegory, there is an entire history behind it's world, and in the first part of the Silmarillion there is a story about the creation of Middle Earth, pretty much identical to our own creation from the Bible. There is one supreme god over M.E., with angels, and there is a Satan, with his own following, who rebels against God. Viewing it in this light (though it's not seen in the movies or hardly at all in the LotR trilogy books), I see any "magic" performed as acts of their God-figure. And 'wizard' is just the title used by Gandalf and Saruman and those like him - really, they are lower angels sent by God to watch over and protect His children, called the Maiar.
Now, I hate to criticize, and I'm not the best person to do it, since I haven't read the books or seen the movies. I also talked with my parents about this a little bit to get some more viewpoints on why we handle it the way we do. Of course we think the same way, but they said one of the reasons they originally decided against it was that they had heard many Christian speakers whom they greatly admired and respected speak on this subject (ie Dr. Dobson, Dr. Raney, etc.) about why they were against it. Much of it was worldview of the authors - J.R.R. Tolkien being a very devout Catholic, that showed through in his work. J.K. Rowling's work bothers me in that her 'wizards' are born with their magical powers, and discover them, and the fact that thousands of kids around the world believe in it whole-heartedly as a real, "fun" thing, where it is really un-biblical and dangerous, a tool that Satan uses to gather more followers.
I realize that this is a gray area, and I'm truly very sorry if I've offended anyone, but this is my opinion. I also realize that Christians have free will to choose what they want to believe in gray areas, and we don't have the authority to go around judging other Christians for the way they interpret those, because no one knows what's really right or wrong - that's why they're called 'gray!' We can either agree with each other or agree to disagree, but I really want to keep this as friendly as possible, just sharing our thoughts/opinions with each other to benefit each other. I don't want this to turn into a little squabble between anyone that will damage friendships, and I don't think it will, but I just want to make sure everyone knows that I'm not posting purposefully to give offence to anyone.
Also please remember that I give my opinions very decidedly, and sometimes very forcefully, so if I offended without meaning to, please let me know and I'll try and make that right. And try to tone it down a little in the future ;)
(ok, maybe it did take a while)
i'm not going to even try to say anything, verya. again, i think there's such a big chasm between us that it is pointless to build a bridge. do you think there's really people doing magic like the magic in harry potter or "jonathan strange & mr. norrell?" in the way they do it? or do you have a problem with just magic in general? or you just have a problem with the worldview? in which case i don't think it should be contained to magic/fantasy books at all. you would have a problem with a ton of things.
on an aside, i've heard opinions where the goodguys should be goodguys and the badguys should be badguys, and that this is what is wrong with harry potter. or star wars. which is baloney. there's bad in every person in the world. including heroes. there's hope for the worst sinner in the world. the most fallen person. can still turn back and salvage. that's real life.
Yes!
I knew that someone agreed with me about Harry Potter. (outside of my own family. I think they agree with me. Not that I've checked.)
About magic . . .
I think that there is a spirit world. I also think that is a really scary thought. My grandma says that their are people we communicate with demons. I really don't know my opinion on magic.
So what about books with cults? What do you think about those?
against Sam's reasoning, I firmly believe that the good guys should be good guys. I'm not saying they can't have problems or doubt themselves or any of those things Sam was saying, but there are some twisted morality stories that represent wrong as right, and that's not right.
oh. and I totally agree with the Harry Potter sentiment.
my own fantasy plot has it's gods in it. And I see nothing harmful about it. it's not like I will believe the gods I invented for my world are real. they're just a necessary part of the story. and they have a purpose and meaning.
I think that i is cults that are more of a problem, on second thought. I know I've ran across a couple books with cults, and I know my mom would rather I don't read them. Thoughts?
anna, i'm not worried about some vague morally twisted book out there, somewhere. all i am saying is that harry potter and star wars are not morally twisted like that. because those are objections people make to those stories.
don't get me wrong. i believe there is a spirit world. but i don't believe satan works in conspiracy, dark magical powers, kill people kind of ways. he works in the intellectual world, warping people through ideas and keeping their attention from the important parts of the christian faith.
define "cult" please?
i think it would be kind of silly if we could never talk about cults or understand them or read about them or read what they write.
I have to agree with Anna on the good guy-bad guy thing, and Sam on magic.
Wait. I think I'm changing my mind here.
Anna, you say that good guys should be good and bad guys should be bad... but how do you define a 'good' or 'bad' guy in another world? Because we are all inately evil. In real life, those who are moraly 'good' are only that way because of God. And even they sin all the time.
So in another world... how can you define good and bad? You could make your protagonist do absolutly everything right and your antagonist do absolutly everything wrong...
But that still doesn't make them good or bad.
So it almost seems like a 'saved by works' doctrine to make your good guys always good. Like that is what makes them worthy of being heroes. Inspiring people to moral goodness without presenting a savior is worthless, because it's litteraly impossible to be perfectly moraly good.
So I think a story who's main characters arn't moraly good is fine, SO LONG AS sin isn't glorified and always has consequences. Because while we don't want to assert that you can be saved by being moraly good, we also don't want to assert that sin is okay.
So sort of both. Sort of kind of exactly. *whew*
i understand your point, but sin doesn't always have consequences in real life. at least not immediate ones.
I agree with Millie about the good/bad thing. Sam, I still disagree with you (sorry) about the magic thing. I mean, what do you say to things like demon-posessed people, causing them to be ill for years at a tim? Like, when I was in training for my mission trip, we saw dozens of stories about missionaries going to places where people worshipped demons, and the demons took hold of them physically as well as spiritually. Often the story was that the missionaries would pray for them, God would heal them, and then often the whole village would turn to God as a result of that. Satan can do a lot of things not just spiritaully but physically too through the people who devote themselves to him.
I would have to partially agree about cults in books. I mean, it's not good to totally exclude ourselves from the world, because then we miss all our opportunities to share God with the world, but at the same time it's dangerous to put ourselves in the world too much. Like Em, or was it Eowyn? said, it's not how close can we get to the line, it's how far away from it can we get. I personally would rather not read too many books with cults etc., because the more I'm exposed to it the more vulnerable to that mindset I become. It might be different for different people though...
do you believe demons possess people in, say, britain, where jk rowling lives?
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