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1 Peter 3:15 "...always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, that those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame"
all i'm saying, lucy, is that it's very very easy to say "oh i'm a sinner, everything i do is sin, i cannot do anything right," and it's harder to say "i show my pride in these ways, i am dishonest in these ways".
Oh, I get what you're saying: Its easy to say "Oh, I'm such a sinner," because saying that is in a way bragging if we actually say it in the first place, but actually mentioning suspific things is way harder?
huh?????? In the words of Cpt. Jack: "you're not making any sense at all!"
ok, so from the beginning...we're born with a sin nature, because we inherit it from Adam. so we're sinners because of our nature. that causes us to sin. so we sin because we're sinners.
on the flip side, the sin nature that causes us to sin makes us sinners because we are sinning.
like at Camp Hope, I forget and I'm sure you all know this better than me...but there's like inherited sin and actual sin, or something like that right? (I think the names are different, but you get the picture) we're sinners by birth, and we're sinners by choice. it's both.
I was reading in Mere Christianity this morning, and Lewis explains the idea of redundancy very well. He says: "If we ask: 'Why ought I to be unselfish?' and you reply 'Because it is good for society,' we may then ask, 'Why should I care what's good for society except when it happens to pay me personally?' and then you will have to say, 'Because you ought to be unselfish' - which simply brings us back to where we started. You are saying what is true, but you are not getting any further. If a man asked what was the point of playing football, it would not be much good saying 'in order to score goals,' for trying to score goals is the game itself, to the reason for the game, and you would really only be saying that football was football - which is true, but not worth saying. In the same way, if a man asks what is the point of behaving decently, it is no good replying, 'in order to benefit sodiety,' for trying to benefit society, in other words being unselfish...is one of the things decent behavious consists in; all you are really saying is that decent behaviour is decent behaviour."
Is a man a murderer because he murders, or does he murder because he is a murderer?
Both.
(sorry, I just got really excited with the Mere Christianity illustration there!)
16 comments:
I think... we sin because we are sinners.
We're sinners because we were created with free will, and so we naturally rebel against our creator.
Yes, I think we sin because we are sinners.
It is both. You are right, we are born with a sin nature and so we are sinners. On the other side of it, we have a choice to sin.
We sin because we are sinners because of our sin natures. We are sinners because we sin because we make the choice to sin.
Does that make sense?
do i write because i'm a writer or am i a writer because i write?
you can break everything down into specific categories, i'm not sure it always helps. categories by nature limit and exclude and set up boundaries.
without knowing what sin is, the pride and selfishness and anger that run through my whole being, calling myself a sinner is kind of meaningless.
it's very easy to label sinners without naming sins, i guess, is what i'm saying.
Well, Sam, I am pretty sure everybody here knows what sin is. Right? If not I would be happy to to explain to anyone who does not know.
I guess its just one of those loopy go on forever kind of statements. Like, in a circle.
all i'm saying, lucy, is that it's very very easy to say "oh i'm a sinner, everything i do is sin, i cannot do anything right," and it's harder to say "i show my pride in these ways, i am dishonest in these ways".
i guess it's losing the trees for the forest.
Um, I'm not sure I'm understanding Sam. Elaborate?
Yes, we have a choice to sin. But we can't go against our natures no more than a can opener can slice a tomato.
Oh, I get what you're saying: Its easy to say "Oh, I'm such a sinner," because saying that is in a way bragging if we actually say it in the first place, but actually mentioning suspific things is way harder?
Thanks for your posting and have a nice day.
I loved thids blog.
okay...
beth, you lost me there.
and I think it's both.
that's exactly it beth.
exactly.
Ah! Comment deleted!!!
huh??????
In the words of Cpt. Jack:
"you're not making any sense at all!"
ok, so from the beginning...we're born with a sin nature, because we inherit it from Adam. so we're sinners because of our nature. that causes us to sin. so we sin because we're sinners.
on the flip side, the sin nature that causes us to sin makes us sinners because we are sinning.
like at Camp Hope, I forget and I'm sure you all know this better than me...but there's like inherited sin and actual sin, or something like that right? (I think the names are different, but you get the picture) we're sinners by birth, and we're sinners by choice. it's both.
I was reading in Mere Christianity this morning, and Lewis explains the idea of redundancy very well. He says:
"If we ask: 'Why ought I to be unselfish?' and you reply 'Because it is good for society,' we may then ask, 'Why should I care what's good for society except when it happens to pay me personally?' and then you will have to say, 'Because you ought to be unselfish' - which simply brings us back to where we started. You are saying what is true, but you are not getting any further. If a man asked what was the point of playing football, it would not be much good saying 'in order to score goals,' for trying to score goals is the game itself, to the reason for the game, and you would really only be saying that football was football - which is true, but not worth saying. In the same way, if a man asks what is the point of behaving decently, it is no good replying, 'in order to benefit sodiety,' for trying to benefit society, in other words being unselfish...is one of the things decent behavious consists in; all you are really saying is that decent behaviour is decent behaviour."
Is a man a murderer because he murders, or does he murder because he is a murderer?
Both.
(sorry, I just got really excited with the Mere Christianity illustration there!)
both
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