okay, classic example - here's where we all decide what we truly believe; does the end justify the means or no?
I don't know if you've heard the new big think with the CIA and Congress rather disagreeing on there being destroyed tapes showing that waterboarding was used on terrorists to get information. Anyway, Congress says no and the CIA says yes.
why they come out now and say the tapes were destroyed I have no idea, but that's politics I suppose.
Anyway, the whole point is, besides the fact that it's illegal and countries around the world do it anyway (I guess they do a lot of illegal things without telling anyone or getting caught), is it ok to use torture to get information from these terrorists - information that could save hundreds of American lives? Is it ok even to commit murder to save hundreds of lives?
I'm not going to say where I lean yet. I'm still wavering and thinking it over, and I want to know other peoples' opinions first - it will help to shape mine. Thoughts?
12 comments:
i think it's wrong, no matter what. i cannot imagine a situation that torture would be right. can you, really? i mean, writhing torture.
i do not live in fear of a terrorist attack. and i really don't want to watch the u.s. turn into a police state out of fear. everyone is all in a race to turn over personal rights to our government to fight terrorism. is anyone else really concerned by all the stuff the cia and fbi do behind our backs? about how they take our phone records without telling us or getting our permission? and now no one is willing to condemn torture by our government?
we become a monster to fight the monster. and in the process lose everything we stood for.
how long will we tilt at windmills?
we torture suspected terrorists today, we take away our personal rights today, what about tomorrow? what about when it's not so good of a cause? will anyone care, then? who gets to decide what's a good cause to torture for? who gets to decide what are okay personal rights to take away? independent sections of our government??
imho, we need to send a message that this is not okay and that the people of america will not support this kind of action. "the people should not be scared of their government. the government should be scared of its people."
and i understand that there are probably a lot of different views on this. but i'm kind of tired of hearing about the torture our government does.
and my dad is always telling me about how other countries do it worse.
i don't doubt that other countries torture and misuse their military and everything.
but that does not excuse the country i love's actions.
i refuse to believe that every country has to "ante up" a certain amount of evil to play the game.
or that other countries' actions somehow excuse our "little" ones.
it shouldn't be that way.
"if you walk away i'll walk away"
Oh, this is such a tough question. I don't really know my opinion. I tend to think that torturing for any reason is wrong.
Amen Sam, I completely agree with you.
for once ha-ha. it's funny how I keep agreeing with you on all this stuff.
I was talking to mom about this on thursday and I'm like - if I support my government doing this, to me it's like I'm doing it myself. It's just wrong.
I think we are young and naive and that world issues look pretty black and white to us. We are NOT as wise and discerning as we think some times and frankly I am tired of thinking I am.
exactly. i am so glad we agree.
interesting, beth.
that's probably true, lindy. i'll concede that. i know i, we, are young and idealistic and armchair theorists, cloud thinkers.
but if it's all fighting for something you consider we don't understand, at least our motives are pure (mostly). if we turn out to be naive, we did not hurt anything, we lived the way we thought was right, the way many many people have chosen.
perhaps it's not realistic. but sometimes defeated resignation is not an option, when the stakes are as high as i consider them to be at this point in my life.
what do you think we are naive about, lindy?
Okay, I agree with Sam and Verya now! I'm thoroughly convinced.
=-)
some interesting writing on war and benefits and drawbacks can be found at http://modesty.blogspot.com, stephen christian's most recent post. very applicable to ends justifying the means, and i really liked the way he talked about it.
I don't know...
I'll come back later.
Hmm. . .
It is a very tough question. But, here is the question we should be considering, what does the Bible say? It may not say anything specifically about this subject, but what does it say in general? "Love your enemies as yourself" "you shall not murder" I'm not saying I'm an expert on this, I have to do some study. Just ask this, what does the Bible say on how to treat fellow man?I don't think the ends justifies the means every time.
I also agree with Lindy, we are not as wise as we think we are. We do not know everything.
So are you saying no, Lucy? As for me, I don't think that it's Biblically correct...
Would you agree?
who would jesus torture?
ask yourself that.
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