Okay, I wanted to get your thoughts on something I've really been struggling with lately. You guys are my best friends and you're who I turn to when I need help (ha-ha after my parents and God of course)! I know we've been through the whole predestination/foreknowledge thing before, but I just wanted to share something I ran across in my Bible's notes this morning. It seems to make sense to me. Like I said, I've been struggling with this for a while, so I'm not defending a point here or anything, just asking for your thoughts and input.
So it's for Romans 8:29-30 –
Rom. 8:29-30: For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
Notes: foreknew. Some insist that the knowledge here is not abstract but is couched in love and mixed with purpose. They hold that God not only knew us before we had any knowledge of Him but that He also knew us, in the sense of choosing us by His grace, before the foundation of the world (see Eph 1:4; 2Ti 1:9). Others believe that Paul here refers to the fact that in eternity past God knew those who by faith would become His people. predestined. Predestination here is to moral conformity to the likeness of His Son. that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. The reason God foreknew, predestined and conformed believers to Christ's likeness is that the Son might hole the position of highest honor in the great family of God.
So what do you think about the second theory/opinion? I knew we've thoroughly covered the first one, but my problem with grasping that is this: what is the basis for God choosing some people over others to be His elect? What if the second theory is true – that God foreknew who would choose Him, and that they became His people, whom He predestined to be conformed to the likeness of Christ?
I wouldn't have brought this up but my pastor is a Calvinist and he's been preaching lately on God's love…and predestination has come up a few times (which I think is very brave of him since it's not the opinion of the whole church!). It's just been really confusing to me, and not being able to understand it, I'm having a harder time trusting a God I'm not understanding. If He chose some people to go to Heaven and left others out, does He still love all people? It would seem not…there are people in the Bible He said He hated, which is also confusing because didn't God so love the world???
Of course, God never meant for us to fully grasp Him! He's far too great for that! I would just like you to drop anything you thought about this before, approach it with an open mind, and let me know what you think – because it makes more sense to me this way but I might be missing something.
Thanks guys,
Verya
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6 comments:
OK, this is going to be a short answer for the moment, I will be back with Scripture and more detailed one.
Why did God choose some over others? Well, He didn't choose some because there was anything in them that He saw to be good. He choose some over others because He wanted to. Not because of anything we would do. I don't think we can completely understand it but He is God and God can do what He wants. It is a wonder He chose any of us! Again I will be back with scripture and a better description.
Also, if God only knew who would choose Him and waited for them, than that is not really predestination. We are completely and totally incapable of choosing Him, not only that, we don't want to! God had to choose us, otherwise we would all go to Hell which is what we really deserve. More to come.
One more thing I forgot.
God is omniscient, all knowing, all knowledge, so He always knew whom He choose. Even from before He created the world.
But according to Calvinism, didn't He choose people before the creation of the world anyway?
Thank you, I will definitely think about it, and I'm waiting for your longer comment!
Here is a sermon by John McArthur about this subject, I think it will be helpful. It is in text so you can read it.
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Transcripts/90-276
I will try to get the rest of my answer up today. *hug*
I'm sorry Kacy, there are several things that have to be explained about this subject and my studying is taking a lot longer than I thought it would.
Tell you what, how about I just write a whole other post for it. Would that be ok with you? Or would you rather I have a really long comment? I'm good either way. I promise to have it up as soon as I can.
Oh Lucy you're awsome! you make me laugh girl...
go ahead and just make a new post when you get time for it. I'll read the sermon as soon as I have a chance, but I gotta fly now!
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