I was thinking today on the way home from co-op- Christians really weaken their case when they try to promote godliness. Mr. R was talking about how the youth at his church are throwing a party on October 31st which they absolutely refuse to associate with the secular celebration of that day- he wouldn't even say Halloween. And I was thinking, I bet that if one of the kids who comes to this party says "Happy Halloween!" when they leave, Mr. R will be offended. That's an assumption and kind of a lame example anyway, but think about it. The same people who refuse to say Happy Halloween also shake their heads at those who try to be politically correct by saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Why is that? Do we just not like it when people bring ungodliness into our own godly lives?
It's just weird how we shake our heads at people for doing what they beleive and not doing what we beleive, while we're doing and not doing the exact same things. It seems obvious to me that people are going to act in accordance with their beleifs. It's not sad that sin and false truth is in the world and that we are going to run into it- that's a fact of life and it's in us as much as anywhere. It is sad that people don't have salvation from that sin.
What if instead of promoting our ideas of godliness we just decided to stick to promoting God? And if we're not going to promote God, we might as well let them practice their beleifs in peace and even respect them for it because they are doing what they think is right. They may be wrong, but why should that offend us?
What do you think?
13 comments:
Hmm......
I think that some people get so conservative they almost become liberalistic - am I using the right word?
We definitely need to be careful of that. For example, I don't believe that halloween is right - or what halloween really means is right. But most everyday people aren't celebrating halloween as a day for evil and satan (I think). Now, I still wouldn't celebrate it, because I don't want to support it, but I think you could argue that it is fine to celebrate on that day... I don't know. It's a thin line. It is interesting to point out that All Hallows Eve is still celebrated today, when All Saints Day isn't really.
And a lot of Christians just celebrate Halloween as Reformation Day. So it's not black and white. Anyway, As for the whole idea of people doing things because they think it's right...
I think that a lot of people just don't think. Like their ten year old kids having boy friends and girl friends, that sort of thing.
You could say you could respect them for doing what is right, but it is their job to do what is right (go to church, worship God, etc.) That's why every man is guilty.
Ugg. I'm making no sense... Maybe my thoughts will be better later.
No, no, you are making since. I think the word you were looking for is "legalistic," perhaps? That's also a good point about things not being black and white, especially on the Halloween issue.
And you're right, some people really don't seem to think at all. Maybe I should have said, "every man is living up to his own standards or lack thereof."
But my point is, no matter how wrong what they are doing is- celebrating halloween, dating at age ten, robbing banks- arn't we just wasting time by trying to teach them to be good? As though that saves them? Yes, every man is guilty, but I am just as guilty as any of "them." The only difference is Jesus. I would expect that people would live up to their own standards and I can't blame them for that, even when I know they are wrong. The point of the gospel is not to clear the world of sin but to give us a hope of salvation from it.
Am I making any since?
you're right on.
enforcing morality by creating "better" christian subcultures is not going to help at all, in fact it is rather ridiculous and it's probably going to offend a lot of people.
little kids dressing up and going trick or treating is a rich american tradition that i find quite harmless. to all of my friends, there is no more significance than that. to call it a harvest festival and do the exact same thing???
i think the reason so many people associate christianity with "not doing bad things" is that is all christianity is to so many people. even though christians do all the same "bad things" as the "lost people."
christianity is so much deeper and complex than that, and to try to usher in an age of christianity by making everyone "good" and making the world "safe" for us is only going to end up making us sound like the biggest jerks.
we have to realize that there are a lot more issues at stake than just proving that we're right, we're being perceived and judged every step of the way, and it is our job to not needlessly offend and show jesus as sincerely and thoroughly as we can. lately, i feel like an apologizer running behind christians trying to clean up their mess.
kind of like the boy with the wheelbarrow in the parade, if you will.
I think you are right, Sam, in that we shouldn't be trying to make things and people "better" because it's not going to get "better". In essence of this entire conversation and what Em said about
"throwing a party on October 31st which they absolutely refuse to associate with the secular celebration of that day- he wouldn't even say Halloween." All that is saying is "I am better than you because I don't believe in Halloween". We are comparing ourselves to EACH OTHER not to GOD. God is who we should be comparing ourselves with because that shows us that every single one of us is just the same, just as sinful, just as fallen. That I think is the mistake the entire world makes I think. It's like at work Lucy and I being labeled "the good christian girls" when we are just as "bad" as the rest of the world!
"Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is God." Luke 18:19
Yeah...there are LOTS of secular holidays. They just started out differently and I think a lot of Christians compare these holidays and how they are celebrated with their roots, not with how people view them today. MJ's right, hardly anyone (not Christians) know what Halloween even is, so who are we to look down on them for celebrating it and following tradition?
don't get me wrong, we don't celebrate it either, but it's not something we should be afraid of even talking about because it's evil. We need to be able to know why we don't celebrate it, and instead of attacking things like Halloween - which are really only symptoms of the true evil, Satan - we need to go after the root of the problem, and teach people about knowing God, not knowing our shallow Christian "rules."
I heard something profound yesterday: "If you want to truly impact the world in an eternal way, and to know Jesus Christ personally, then study God and spend time with Him. If you want to be smart and rich and famous, then study the Bible."
This doesn't mean don't read the Bible, by any means! But too many people know a ton about God and have never actually met Him, because they spend hours in His Word, but He's not with them.
Sorry, I didn't mean to start a debate on Halloween.
But wow Verya, that is an incredible quote!!!
Yes! Those thoughts are all kind of what I was thinking.
Yes, like Christmas. Catholic holiday, but we still celebrate it. I know some people who don't celebrate Christmas, but they give gifts to each other on New Year's Day instead. It seems slightly... not hypocritical... just - I don't know.
No offense to those who do it, by the way, just a thought.
Like I said, it's a thin line. And I don't think there's really anything we can do about it on a large degree, just do little things here and there.
just fyi, christmas is not a catholic holiday, christmas is a pagan feast day that got turned into a catholic/christian holiday. jesus wasn't born anywhere near december 25th, as far as we know. just fyi.
Christmas used to be a Roman Pagan holiday worshiping the Saturnalia.
see the problem I have with your quote Verya is that I don't want to be smart and rich and famous, and nor do I think those are good goals for christians to have. studying the bible, yes. anyday. okay, so smart is one of those worldly things I have problems with. more like erudition, but same difference.
I agree with you Anna, but the point of Kacy's quote probably is leaning towards that the Bible is one of the most important things.
I've heard about how Christ was probably not born on December 25. I tend to agree. Lots of Christians seem to have the view point that Christmas shouldn't be celebrated because it doesn't say to in the Bible - plus it is a Catholic holiday. But the other day, it struck me . . . part of the point of Christmas is to celebrate that Christ, the son of God, came onto earth to save his people, which is a pretty amazing concept. So why not have a special day to remember what he did for us? I don't think their is anything wrong with setting aside one day out of the year to remember it especially.
I know that isn't really the point of this conversation, but we got on the topic of Christmas so . . .
I completely agree with you Emily. I definitely think that living your life as more of an example instead of condemning other people is much better. Who wants to be told everything they are doing wrong? I don't really think that is a great approach . . .
I don't think not telling people that their wrong because they don't like to hear it is exactly the point...
We just should purify ourselves before we expect perfection from others.
*scudles off to make new post*
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