Alright, in answer to Verya's previous post (see below), I am writing one for the benefit of all (my comment would have been too long anyways)! Grab your Bible because I am going to make you look up a lot of Scripture. So, to get to it, here are the questions that need to be answered: Is man capable of making any spiritual decision about his own salvation? If God chose some, why didn't He choose the others? If He didn't choose others, does it still make Him a loving God?
I know everybody here knows that man is sinful, but lets refresh our mind with some scripture, Romans 3:10-18
10 As it is written:
“ There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “ Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“ The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “ Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “ There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Jeremiah 17:9
“ The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?"
Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
Philippians 2:21
"For all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus."
Ephesians 2:1-3
1" And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
(see also Isaiah 53:6, 64:6-7, Ephesians 4:17-19, Romans 1:26-32, Galatians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5-9, 2 Timothy 3:1-9)
I think that is pretty clear what state man is in. It also answers a question, is man capable of making any spiritual decision about his own salvation? Well, man is "dead in trespasses and sins". Have you seen a dead person before? What can they do? Nothing! A dead person is completely and utterly incapable of doing anything. Dead means exactly that, dead. So, because man is spiritually dead, they are incapable of making there own spiritual decision. Not only that, man doesn't want to seek God, "there is none who seeks after God." "For all seek their own," OK, that raises another question, if man is incapable of making any spiritual decision about his salvation, how can he be held accountable for his sin?
Ephesians 4:18-19
18 "having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness."
Romans 1:18-21
18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."
Notice again that it is God that shows man "because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them." and man suppresses that truth with unrighteousness. Later in Romans, in chapter 2 "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things." There is no excuse for sinning.
Because man is incapable of choosing God, God had to choose us.
Ephesians 1:4-5
4" just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"
Predestination, to pre-determine, foreordain events to happen"
Ephesians 1:11
"In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,"
John 6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 15:16
"You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
John 15:19
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."
As you read the Bible it hard to miss that God is the one that chooses. He chose Israel, David, Abraham, Jacob, the Apostles, Jesus, who would be saved (His elect), etc. (see also Deuteronomy 7:6, 1 Kings 11:34, Nehemiah 9:7, Psalm 135:4, Acts 1:2, Matthew 12:18, Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14, Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20, Mark 13:27, Romans 9:11, Colossians 3:12, 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, 2 Timothy 2:10, Titus 1:1, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 2:9, Revelation 17:14)
So then, why didn't He choose all of the other people? It can't be because there is something in one person that is better over another person.
Deuteronomy 10:17
"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe."
2 Chronicles 19:7
"Now therefore, let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take care and do it, for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, no partiality, nor taking of bribes.”
Romans 2:11
"For there is no partiality with God."
Galatians 2:6
"But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me."
1 Peter 1:17
"And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;"
(see also Job 37:24, Acts 10:34, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25)
God is a merciful God, but He is also a just God and He does what He wills.
Romans 9:14-24
11 "(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"
Bam! That hits it right on the nose, " Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens." He didn't choose the others because it wasn't His will. We, the creature, can't be questioning God, the Creator, why. 19 "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”
That leaves the question, does this still make God a loving God? Of course it does! Read back carefully, man is without excuse for his sin and it is completely right and just for God to send anybody and everybody to Hell.
Psalm 9:17
"The wicked shall be turned into hell, And all the nations that forget God."
Nahum 1:2-3
2 "God is jealous, and the LORD avenges;
The LORD avenges and is furious.
The LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies;
3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
And will not at all acquit the wicked.
The LORD has His way
In the whirlwind and in the storm,
And the clouds are the dust of His feet."
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50
41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
49 "So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Romans 2:5-6
5 "But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:"
Romans 13:4
"For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."
Revelation 20:13
"The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works."
(see also Matthew 10:28, Matthew 7:23, Luke 12:5, Romans 1:18, Colossians 3:6, 1 Peter 4:5, 2 Peter 2:4-11, Revelations 20:11-15)
Each on is judged according to his works, since all have sinned, all would be condemned to Hell. But, God had mercy.
Even in man's state of complete sin, evil, wickedness and rejection of God, God had the love to send His Son.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Romans 5:8
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."
Ephesians 2:4-5
4 "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),"
1 John 4:10
"In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins."
(see also Ephesians 5:2, Colossians 1:13-14, 2 Thessalonians 2:16, Titus 3:4-5, 1 John 3:1, 1 John 4:9, 1 Peter 1:3)
It is clear in the Bible that man is incapable and unwilling to come to God, has no excuse for sinning and is completely dependent on God for his salvation. God in His great love for us, had mercy on those He chose and those He didn't choose, it wasn't His will for them.
I know that was a really long answer and you may not have time to read it all right now. But, I encourage you to take the time and look through your Bible for the answer and don't take my word for it. I hope this helps you Verya and I pray that you will enjoy studying the Word for the answer, as I really have. If you have any questions or would like to me expand on anything, I would be happy to! To God be the glory!
10.20.2007
In the Beginning God. . .
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