11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”[a] 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”[b]
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”[c] 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”[d] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
6 comments:
Lucy, pleeeaaaasssseeee....
I'm sooo staying out of this.
I'm very sorry, but we've had this discussion about five times before...
And I'm super sorry if I seem rude, I'm really not trying to be, but I just want everyone to know that I'm out for this one.
I have the same mind as Verya. Talking about God and scripture doesn't always have to be a debate.
Not saying that you are Lucy, but we should not be looking for a confrontation, or to prove a point. Let's just give the theological debate a rest for a while, hm?
I don't mind the debating (I rather enjoy it usually, wicked me), but it's just that we've been through this same topic several times before.
I'm sorry if I sounded rude last night, I was tired... :) And I know you weren't here for those other debates, so I'm not mad or anything. Good scriptural support though!
I have to agree with Verya . . . I'm a little tired on this particular debate, because we have gone over it a lot. Normally I do love to debate this to, but nobody is going to back down on this anyway.
But . . . I do have one question . . . Verya, you said you were a 5 point Calvanist, and that your pastor explained it to you. I would be interested to know what he said.
I too like to have discussions but that is not why I posted this. And I'm sorry if it seemed like that.
It was just, as I was reading I thought "wow" it reminded me just how powerful God is and how I am not in control of things. And how God is so loving, merciful, Creator etc. Who am I to question God why He lets some things happen? I'm not sure that sounded quite right, but you know what I mean.
These verses really struck me and I thought I would share it with everybody. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was trying to make a point or start another debate.
Oh, sorry Lucy! and another miscommunication on the village square. tune in next time to hear Sam and Verya completely take the wrong meaning from each others' words.
Well, here I am, putting my foot in my mouth.
Okay Beth, I'd love to be able to answer your question, but I am so confuzzled from the two or so times we've debated this since then, I can't really remember it. I never really got it all the way, it was kinda like Algebra you know? Made sense through the lesson but not for the test.
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