ok.
so let's say.
it's this perfect world.
the christian right gets to go kick evolution out of the schools, post ten commandments everywhere, help get a few more conservative judges who forget about the ninth part of the bill of rights, make sure "under god" is kept in the pledge (btw, those two words were added in the 60's), install a few nuclear reactors, put in a few more unsuccessful abstinence centers in africa, pass some laws making sure homosexuals are discriminated against & that they are worser sinners than us good christians, ban abortion, kick all the immigrants out of the country (oops, now it's empty), etc. it'd be great!!! talk about a perfect society. what more could we want? all our problems are fixed.
it's not that i think those battles are necessarily all the wrong battles. but what they are is tilting at windmills in the backyard, while millions are dying physically and spiritually all around us. wake up, christians. stop blanketly accepting every move of the republican party.
start looking at what the bible has to say, not what the "conservative" stance on the issue is.
stop trying to create a "safe" society for our kids, a "christian" society for our kids. that is not what we want. we want an open society, where people of every religion have an opportunity to share their beliefs.
this is when christianity is going to shine, when people are going to wake up to the truth.
christians are such a large political base, but right now they are being used by a lot of powerful men to fit their agenda. and i'm sick of it.
2.16.2007
they tell their lies, and we all synchronize
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17 comments:
Politics are just frustrating, although this is a little bit more than that, yet it still is related . . .
I agree with you.
But...
But the culture of a country does defines it's sucess. A Godly culture honnors God and he will bless them. I think if our country put God first more, things would improve a lot for us.
The thing is... it's not gonna happen. And I agree that it's not the most important thing we could be doing.
wow, abraham lincon never went to church? that's crazy!
i agree.
i want a godly culture too.
but it is not going to come by setting the clock back to the nineteenth century, when anyone who published atheistic writings got thrown into jail.
people are not going to love jesus when he is thrust upon them.
nope, abraham lincoln never went to church. lol.
what i mean i want is, an open government that is not christian, that is not any religion. when that comes, that is when christianity is going to shine. remember, change the people around you through words, not change everyone through force.
Oh, okay, I get it.
I guess I would almost be willing to take the position that we should have a Christian nation. Not like opressivly Christian- more like Turky is with Islam. More an acknowledgement of God than anything else. I guess that only applies to some of the things you brought up.
Unfortunutly, we don't live in a Christian nation. So like you said, a lot of those battles are just tilting at windmills. I'm just saying that in a perfect world, I would definitly go for a Christian nation.
Our country needs a Revival, I think.
I'm afraid I have to stongly disagree. Our country was founded upon Christian principals by almost all Christian men, and though America isn't "Christian" today, because we are on a downhill slope away from our foundation, I don't think that expulsion of any and all religion from government is the answer at all. That would be horrible for me to imagine, because if Christians are willing to sit back and let American liberalists take out everything our nation was founded on, there will be no base left and we'll find ourselves standing over air. That's also when other people with different religions will see that we don't care about our principles being in government anymore, and they will fill up the huge voids with their own principles. That would completely change our culture.
Is it honoring God to let Americans completely ignore the beliefs that their country was built upon? I'm not saying we should shove it down their throats, but if the people who helped our country survive its first years were willing to fight for the rights they wanted because of their faith, how much more should we be willing to do the same in a country where so many people want to keep us down? Religion is at the heart of every worldview, and worldview is what shapes people into who they are. People shape countries into what they will be, and if Christianity is not at the heart of the people shaping America, this country will cease to be Christian. And why, if we cease to be a God-honoring nation, should God choose to so lavishly bless us as He has since our nation's birth? If people are fighting to have requests of His blessing taken out of the country, and the people who should be fighting to keep them in are sitting back saying "keep religion out of government," tell me why should God continue to bless us?
I saddens my hearts that Americans don't realize how good they have it. America is the least opressive, most welcoming country in the world. We have freedom of religion, but it's sometimes abused and sometimes completely ignored when it should be used. Seperation of religion and government would never work, because the moment our government loses its foundation someone else will try to fill in the gaps, and with the range of religions in our country something else entirely would overtake us. It might not be a recognized religion, in fact it would probably not be. I see it more as being the things that are already trying to overtake America - materialism, selfishness, relativism, etc. This is why it is so important that we keep God where He belongs in our country - at the heart of it. In government and anywhere else we want His blessing on us. The words "Under God" may only have been added in the '60's, but when we got it straight then to invite God to be the head of our country, why are we so eager now to kick Him out? I do not think that Christianity would shine after we have sat back and let anti-Christians take everything away that we were working for. Why should something that had come to be viewed as spineless and relenting suddenly be eagerly listened to? When all that Americans seem to want is whatever will benefit them, why would they all of a sudden look to a faith that will ask them to be selfless? When Americans want to govern their own lives and be accountable to nobody, why should they jump at the chanct to profess someone supreme ruler of their lives, when Christians had just told them that they could have their own way and their country would still be fine?
If we just sit back and let today's mindset take over our culture, if we let God be deliberately taken out of everything we once invited Him into and we do nothing to stop it, our foundation will be completely and unchageably altered for the worse. And not only will our culture change dramatically, but I believe that the country itself will cease to be in it's "Golden Age" of blessings. I believe that America is so richly blessed by God because of her Christian foundation, and the invitation we have given Him to be our Supreme Ruler. If we fight to have Him kicked out so we can rule ourselves without His guidance, or if we even at least ignore what's going on around us with those who are trying to do that, what reason would He have for continuing to shower us with His grace, mercy, and abundant love? Why would we not become like so many other countries in the world who do not have those blessings because in fighting against God they will not accept them?
I'm sorry I have to disagree so strongly, but I cannot imagine a government without religion (religion being whatever one idolizes most, in America it's slanting towards materialism and selfishness), and moreover I think that Christianity cannot shine more brightly if Christians themselves have already helped to extinguish it.
BTW I do agree with the fact that we shouldn't blatently accept everything our party stand for or goes with, but that we should test it against what the Bible has to say.
I could get nit-picky and start arguing with all the examples you posted, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the point of the post, ha-ha. I'm not sure, however, what it is you want Christians to wake up and start doing. Politics are slow enough as it is, and I think that the 'perfect world' you described would be a better America, though I'm sure the slant I would put on it would be totally the opposite (BTW I'm not calling it slanted journalism since it's more an editorial than a documentary, lol). Several of the things that you mentioned are important things to fight for (I'm not sure what your stance is on them since you said that they weren't all bad so I won't start defending all of them), the thing standing out the most to me considering my previous comment being evolution in our schools. This affects worldview, and completely changes the mindset and eventually faith of too many children who never get a chance to hear the truth. While I do think that it should be completely taken out of schools (it's a lie, and they wouldn't put things like 2+2 = 5 in a math book, so why lie in a science book?), I think first of all that it's important that kids get a chance to hear the truth and not just a lie or at least an opinion stated as fact.
Got to go, I think that was it anyway.
good grief!!! you're the best, verya.
very well thought out and articulate.
i'll think about it.
ty sam. I guess once I get going it's just hard to stop on something that touches me. thanks for considering what I had to say, and I understand if you still disagree, because I can tell that you put a lot of thought into your posts too. there will be some things I'm sure that we just won't ever agree on, but it's important to consider other people's opinions too.
ok. I'm going to try super-hard to post later today everyone! I just got an e-mail that's like perfect and I think I'll post it here...
Wow, Verya, you are obviously way smarter than me. I think this whole discussion is above my head, but I was thinking about democracy.
Cuz the problem here isn't that the government is just willy-nilly kicking God out of the country because they've decided they can do it without him. The problem is with a few ordinary citizens who decided they were offended by the fact that Christianity shows up in government more than any other religion. They protest, and because we're a democracy, the government has to listen.
So we can run around like chickens with our heads cut off about that, but even if we do end up winning the political battle, I don't think we've really accomplished anything. Just becase we're officialy inviting God into our government doesn't mean our leaders or all of the people want him there. Those who hate God will still hate God. Those who love him will go on loving him. The tennor of our ungodly nation would not change just because we were officialy acknowledging God.
Granted, it would be nice if the majority did love God and if we could have a Christian government. But if we spend our energy on the individuals in our lives, showing them the love of Christ, then God can use us to change the hearts of the people, and that, eventualy, would change the tennor of our nation.
At the same time, we do have a responsibility to put our two bits into the government so that the loudmouths in the other party don't always end up getting their way just because they're the only ones saying anything. But to fight for an officialy Godly government seems kind of like a false front- like we're tricking ourselves into thinking that by acknowledging God we would have some sort of superior holyness when really, our country is just as full of wickedness either way.
Part of me thinks I have no idea what I'm talking about. So just take it with a grain of salt. :-)
Let me just preface this by saying that no, It's very obvious that I'm not smarter than you, lol.
I really like what you have to say Em. I think that democracy is probably the best form of government we have right now, because the people shape the country. However, like you pointed out, democracy has its flaws too. I agree that we have power to influence the people we know personally, and that should probably be our main goal, but that when we are involved in government, we should still fight to keep Christianity at the center of the government, because that is what America was founded on, and that (I believe) is why our nation is so blessed. But like you said, if people make up their mind to hate God, only He can change their mind. We just can't back off and say "you have it the way you want it."
I have a post written us, but I'm not at my computer right now (actually I'm supposed to be sudying) so I'll post it later. It's coming though!
I respect your position, and I can see where you are comming from.
But in my humble opinion, America was so great because it started out with mostly God-fearing PEOPLE, not because the government invited God in. The fact that they invited God into the government is just a sign of that. God blessed them because they were righous men (mostly).
God looks at the hearts of men, not on our dollar bills or mottos.
So we've clarified our different points of view. But I think the main point here we agree on: this battle is not nearly as important as shinning for the individuals in our lives. And I think that's all Sam was trying to say in the first place anyway. :-)
Oh I think I just communitcated my thoughts wrong again!
I totally agree with you, and I'm really sorry that my opinion came across differently. I guess what I was trying to say is that I agree with you about God looking at the hearts of men, and that America was so great to begin with because both 1) The men were God-fearing men and 2) because they were God-fearing they invited God into their government. I also agree that we need to focus on the people around us and impacting them with Christ. So I guess really we all agree! (Imagine, this might never happen again, lol) But what I was saying is that when we are involved in politics, we need to try and keep God in them, not help people kick Him out.
w00p, sorry i missed this discussion, very clear thoughts, emily, i definitely agree.
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