does something being "wrong" or "immoral" according to the bible or according to what you believe is right mean it should be illegal for everyone?
of course this has application to politics, in particular abortion, drugs, cigarette laws, etc.
what do you think?
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If a religion wants to say something is amoral, then it is welcome to ban it amongst people who subscribe to that belief. A society (ie. a country) has the exact same rights, and all members should have a say.
I don't know. I think the job of the government is to keep things running smoothly, not to make it's people be good. The only reasons laws like "no stealing" or "no murder" exist is because things don't run smoothly when they are broken.
Hi Em!
That was weird. It said there was one comment, then I opened the comments page and you had just posted yours! Are you still there?
hey nick, nice to meet you, appreciate the comment. definitely agree.
emily, how do you think that applies to banning abortion, legalizing drugs, or banning cigarette smoking in public places?
Guess not.
Well, the Bible is the ultimate law for everyone, universally. It's the law for nonbelievers as well as believers, whether anyone likes it or not. That should be what we as Christians aspire to. And since our country in particular was founded on Christian beliefs and principles, many of our laws are also. Like Em said, the government is in place to keep things going - so we don't have people running around killing each other. This dates back to the first Law, the Ten Commandments, and all of God's other laws.
We should always seek the Bible first when trying to make a desicion, especially our politicians and law-makers. However, a lot of politicians don't consult God (because they don't like the idea that they aren't in charge of their lives). This is why legal systems become flawed, specifically with laws making abortion legal, etc. As Christians, it's our job to fight for God's law and Christian influences to have a direct impact on our law, and to elect godly leaders who have the influence to do that, or to become those godly leaders ourselves.
Other religions have other beliefs - some of them agree with the Bible, and some do not. People striving for tolerance will say that it's ok to let them act the way they want, that we can't make them believe what we do. But there is no tolerance where Christians are concerned. Now I know that of course we can't make anyone believe a certain way, but we can make the right biblical laws for our country to follow - each country has that right. This is the only problem with so many different beliefs in the world: people disagree, and then wars break out, or the wrong laws get made. However, laws do get made, and it's the people's duty to obey those laws, as part of submitting to authority. And this is the problem with religions that do not submit to authority when it is wrong: rebellion. Many times politics and religion don't agree, and while it is our job to change it, it's also our job to obey it while it's the law.
ok weird. I guess it's just a certain time of day or something.
i'm veiling my own views here, in a little while i'll enlighten you as to the real correct view . oops, when sarcasm drips out of the screen, is it bad for the keyboard?
and i'm not going to tackle verya's thoughts yet. interesting, though, definitely.
so verya, would you say it's right for christians to get as much control as they can, and then punish all sin? like lying, adultery, not praying? all sin is equal in god's eyes.
definitely think there is a flaw in that logic. we cannot force everyone to follow what we think is right. if we want to change the world, we have to change the view around us, the view of the people.
and btw, verya, it isn't that they passed laws making abortion legal. it's that they ruled that it was wrong for states to decide for people whether it was right for them to have an abortion.
like, take these cigarette smoking laws passed in washington. how ridiculous is that?
absolutely not even one person is being anything but annoyed by cigarette smoke in public places (it takes a lifetime of nonstop secondhand smoke to have any effect), and businesses are smoking-free (and people are going to them) and businesses are smoker-friendly (and people are going to them) and suddenly we can ban these businesses from letting people smoke? it wasn't a problem. it wasn't interfering with society.
but the majority had to say "no, it's inconvenient for us to smell cigarette smoke, so you have to cater to our wishes."
again. seizing power and forcing views is never the answer.
I don't think "siezing power" is ever the option, that's not what I meant to imply. Christians don't have to right to just make everyone submit to their wishes, and they don't have the ability to do that anyway. We do however have the responibility to correct people when they sin - but in love, not by being judgmental.
Who wouldn't agree that all sin is equal in God's eyes? I'm not saying that Christians don't sin either, or that they should be always seeking power just to punish non-believers because of their sin. But we should do all in our power to fight against laws that make that sin more easy to commit.
Will of the majority is how our country functions. Second-hand smoke is unhealthy for people, no matter how long it takes to kill someone. And I disagree that it does no more than annoy people - take people with breathing problems. I have known several, and that is more than an annoyance. And smokers aren't up in arms about this; they have accepted it, and they can smoke where it doesn't bother anyone.
Again, I agree that forcing something isn't the answer, and in our form of government it isn't possible either, because the majority decides how our future with be shaped, and everyone gets a say. Rather, as Christians, our job is to (as you said) change the view around us, but to correct with love, and to do what we can for God where politics are concerned.
but the few and far between breathing-problem people that were hurt by the smoke could go to the non-smoking restraunts, bowling alleys, bars.
secondhand smoke kills, if you have a dad or mom that smokes in the car and in the house around you every day of your life. hello, lung cancer. it has been shown repeatedly in studies that secondhand smoke has no effect unless you're exposed to it constantly and repeatedly.
you're right, smokers aren't up in arms about it. the people who are are people like me who are concerned with freedom, and people like the bar owners who have had to close down their businesses. people who aren't up in arms about it are the casino owners in the indian reservations. because they can still smoke.
but anyway. bunny trail there.
definitely agree a lot more with your words now.
sometimes, the majority makes the wrong decision. if the majority votes that christians are not allowed to own bibles any more, obviously that is wrong. it would be an infringement on personal rights, correct? so then, it would be the job of the courts to say "hey, that's unconstitutional. not cool" that's why we have a balance of power. that's the message and power of america-that the minority doesn't have to worry about governmental oppression.
I agree that sometimes the majority does make the wrong decision, and America is on a downhill slope - the majority is shifting hands. However, it's our job to make sure there are still people in the government who would say that's unconstitutional.
I'm glad I made myself a little more clear; sorry I wasn't understood well the first time.
yes. i'm sorry i misunderstood you.
conclusion: be careful of what you wish for. we cannot force our morals or preferences on others through rules.
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